“The low-maintenance woman, the ideal woman, has no appetite. This is not to say that she refuses food, sex, romance, emotional effort; to refuse is petulant, which is ironically more demanding. The woman without appetite politely finishes what’s on her plate, and declines seconds. She is satisfied and satisfiable.
A man’s appetite can be hearty, but a woman with an appetite is always voracious: her hunger always overreaches, because it is not supposed to exist. If she wants food, she is a glutton. If she wants sex, she is a slut. If she wants emotional care-taking, she is a high-maintenance bitch or, worse, an “attention whore”: an amalgam of sex-hunger and care-hunger, greedy not only to be fucked and paid but, most unforgivably of all, to be noticed.”
Christ, this article made me legit well up in tears at work…
“Women talk ourselves into needing less, because we’re not supposed to want more—or because we know we won’t get more, and we don’t want to feel unsatisfied. We reduce our needs for food, for space, for respect, for help, for love and affection, for being noticed, according to what we think we’re allowed to have. Sometimes we tell ourselves that we can live without it, even that we don’t want it. But it’s not that we don’t want more. It’s that we don’t want to be seen asking for it. And when it comes to romance, women always, always need to ask.”
One of my least favourite dialogue tropes is when a man tells a woman, “You can’t do that” or “I wouldn’t do that if I were you” and she says, “Why? Because I’m a woman and therefore too weak to handle this/can’t take care of myself?” or something to that effect and the guy replies with, “No, because everyone who tried that ended up with a bullet in their brain” or something equally reasonable and not gender-specific that paints him as the rational not sexist guy and the woman as an irrational paranoid feminist who searches for sexism in everything. This whole scenario is built on the idea that sexism is over and women’s fears and suspicions don’t have a leg to stand on. It’s also self-congratulatory pseudofeminism bc it’s supposed to make the viewer/reader/listener feel that in this specific work of fiction women are treated respectfully and as equal with men.
huh.. never thought of it like that
But, what if the male character isn’t sexist? I meam…their fictional sure but…I’m not sure how to phrase this
Its not a question of the character themselves- its how the writers are portraying them. The way this trope plays out, the whole moment revolves around the woman looking foolish for assuming that there is sexism happening. She is characterized as being irrational, jumping to conclusions, even insecure. While the dude is characterized as the calm, rational one.
It is a trope that specifically works by taking a woman standing up to sexism and saying “haha it wasnt actually sexist at all! Isnt calling out sexism foolish and silly. Thats what you get for assuming that men are sexist!”
> The college I attended was small and very LGBT friendly. One day someone came to visit and used the word “gay” as a pejorative, as was common in the early 2000s. A current student looked at the visitor and flatly said, “we don’t do that here.” The guest started getting defensive and explaining that they weren’t homophobic and didn’t mean anything by it. The student replied, “I’m sure that’s true, but all you need to know is we don’t do that here.” The interaction ended at that point, and everyone moved on to different topics. “We don’t do that here” was a polite but firm way to educate the newcomer about our culture. […]
> It turns out talking about diversity, inclusion, and even just basic civil behavior can be controversial in technical spaces. I don’t think it should be, but I don’t get to make the rules. When I’m able I’d much rather spend the time to educate someone about diversity and inclusion issues and see if I can change how they see the world a bit. But I don’t always have the time and energy to do that. And sometimes, even if I did have the time, the person involved doesn’t want to be educated.
> This is when I pull out “we don’t do that here.” It is a conversation ender. If you are the newcomer and someone who has been around a long time says “we don’t do that here”, it is hard to argue. This sentence doesn’t push my morality on anyone. If they want to do whatever it is elsewhere, I’m not telling them not to. I’m just cluing them into the local culture and values. If I deliver this sentence well it carries no more emotional weight than saying, “in Japan, people drive on the left.” “We don’t do that here” should be a statement of fact and nothing more. It clearly and concisely sets a boundary, and also makes it easy to disengage with any possible rebuttals.
> Me: “You are standing in that person’s personal space. We don’t do that here.”
> Them: “But I was trying to be nice.”
> Me: “Awesome, but we don’t stand so close to people here.”
> Them: Tells an off-color joke.
> Me: “We don’t do that here.”
> Them: “But I was trying to be funny.”
> Me (shrugging): “That isn’t relevant. We don’t do that here.”
I really really do want to endorse this. Making a person’s behavior about capital-M Morality is a great way to get people to dig in their feet and escalate situations. By going “Hey, that behavior doesn’t fit in this context.” it removes a ton of the resentment and toxicity on both sides of the interaction.
(First, I’m sorry this took so long to answer, anon! Life has been a bit overwhelming the last couple of months.)
I’m happy to delve into this a bit. Aging and such is something I think people need to talk about. Otherwise it can be scary sometimes. So for anyone curious, I will be turning 40 on my next birthday.
A little background. I’ve been part of fandom since I was 24 years old. Back then, fandom was a little different and instead of tolerating older fans, we embraced them. I remember going to a Harry Potter conference in 2007. I went to a fanfiction panel that had five women on it, all in their 40s and 50s. They were so happy and confident in their place in fandom and their friendships. It was absolutely beautiful to see.
I remember thinking I hope that’s me some day. Now, of course, things are different. I regularly see posts making fun of people over a certain age for still being in fandom.
We’re all going to get old some day. There’s no stopping that. But getting older doesn’t mean you suddenly lose interest in the things you love. You might have less time to geek out about them, but you’re not gonna lose interest.
I think the key is finding yourself little corner of fandom. Find some people around the same age as you. (For me, I consider ‘same age’ anyone over thirty. There is no upper limit.)
Then basically, once you have this corner, it’s time to say ‘fuck it.’ That might sound harsh, but I refuse to let anyone take away something that makes me happy. Gaming and reading and writing fanfic brings me a ridiculous amount of joy. It’s helped me make friends from all over the world.
Do not let anyone take away your joy. You have just as much of a right to be in fandom as anyone else. And anon, you’re always welcome in my little corner of fandom!
Listen, nonnie. I have been in fandom since I
was 14? 15? and I turn 36 tomorrow. This is a thing that has been part
of me for more than half my life. I don’t know how old you are, but when
I was first starting out in fandom, it was considered a grown-up
pursuit. Sure there were places for under 18s, but the people who ran
the mailing lists, wrote the newsgroup FAQs, and paid for archive
hosting fees? All adults. It was… I don’t want to say unusual for
younger people to be in fandom, but it was made clear that you behaved
respectfully in community/adult spaces. Or you pretended (very badly) to
be an adult and the actual adults overlooked it.
It was super helpful to
me as a young-un to have older female fans to look up to, and know that
I could be an adult (whatever the fuck that means) and still have room
for hobbies and interests I loved. It was also helpful, just as a
person, to have a network of older women who were invested in my
well-being but not necessarily involved in my day to day life to turn
to. I am grateful for my fandom aunties, and I hope I can be there for
younger fans the same way.
I feel like a lot of the “Ew adults in fandom”
bullshit comes from younger fans who can barely conceive of reaching 30
as a non-abstract thing, and suffer from deep misapprehensions of what
adult life is like. Yes you have to deal with stupid things like
insurance and taxes, but you also have so much more freedom to enjoy the
things you love. I am also irritated by so many heteronormative
presumptions these people seem to have: you get married, have kids, and
become so incredibly boring nobody wants you in fandom anyways. Not
everybody gets married or has kids, and neither of those things makes
you boring, you make yourself boring. So find yourself some friends to
grow old with, and stick to them like limpets. If you can’t, find new
friends. I have found that in new fandoms, I tend to gravitate towards
people my age and older, even if I don’t know it at the time. If you’re
enthusiastic and kind, that’s honestly all most people require to start
talking. There is room for you in fandom always, no matter what age you
are.
and I just wanted to second all of it.
All of this. I myself did not discover fandom until I was just about to turn 30 – I didn’t even know what fandom even was before then, and I had no idea that fandom was supposedly not for people my age. It is a hobby like any other, and you’re not too old to have hobbies.
There’s a weird kind of ageist misogyny happening in fandom at the moment, where “women in their 30s and older” are seen by some as the enemy or simply as people who shouldn’t be here in fandom, but honestly – in my own experience, some of the best people I’ve met in fandom are older people; and older than me, a lot of the time: people who can bring their own wisdom and life experience to fandom and navigating the social aspect of fandom as well as fanfic/fanart in a way that many younger people (with a few exceptions, of course) do not yet have the wisdom and life experience to do.
I hope Anon sees this whole “you are too old to have the right to be in or enjoy fandom” stuff for what it is – ageism and misogyny. Because let’s face it, we never tell men of a certain age that they’re too old to enjoy whatever hobby they get really into – why should we do this for women? Why should we do this to ourselves?
There is this expectation in our society that women stop caring about their own needs once they started a family. People ask you how you’re doing and you’re expected to tell them how great your kids are doing in school. Your accomplishments are not your own, your partner and your kids are now your accomplishments.
It’s dangerous bullshit because it literally strips you of your personhood. You’re not a person anymore, you’re a care automaton, designed to care about the happiness of others.
Don’t fall for this. You don’t stop being your own person with your own interests just because you decided to move in with someone or even popped out a kid. You’re still you. Your interests may change but you don’t have to drop all the things you love and join the “clean house” or “best kid in class” fandom.
Women have lives outside of the care for family business. We still love fandom and we’re not going away.
Bonus: fandom olds can mentor the kids. I remember lying my way into message boards and even if no one offered to beta, I learned How To Community by example.
And it doesn’t stop with kids: @thebyrchentwigges dragged me out of my lurk, and a huge part of how I interact with y’all is due to her encouragement.
i’m so done with the way girls in twenties are treated. i’m so done with people who literally create timetable for us. 20- 24 find a guy, 24-26 make him propose to you, 27-29 get married. i’m so done. i’m do not want to get 2 a.m texts from my best friend who is freaking out that she is gonna die alone. i do not want see my 20 years old friend wasting her time on some guys who are not even interested in her. i do not want see us falling for every nice guy who does not look creepy. i do not want to see girls get sad or paranoid just bcos they do not fill in the schedule. you are ok. you should enjoy your life at its fullest and one day you will find 10/10 so do not pursue 6 just because you do not want to be single. it is ok and one day you will find someone. do not split your love with people who does not deserve it. keep it for yourself and when time will come you will know. i know it hurts. i know you wish u could just open part of yourself and release the buzzing love. but not every kind of love is romantic. show it to your family, friends, plants, yourself.
Not a real criticism, just an expansion really, but … it’s not just the timetables we need to get away from, but the goal itself, I think. “One day you will find someone,” sounds comforting, but the reason it doesn’t lay fears to rest is because we are all smart enough to know it’s not necessarily true.
My aunt is over sixty, never married, and never, so far as I am aware, ever even had a great romance. She dated a lot, but never clicked and now seems to have given up. My mentor is over seventy, divorced her asshole husband more than half her life ago and has never found anyone since.
We all know women (and men) like these. And because we know them, we know that “one day you will find someone,” is just … hogwash. Because sometimes you just … don’t. Or sometimes you do, but he turns out to be a cad. Or you do and the universe rips you apart in the most unfair way possible. And because society has us so fixated on finding “our other half” or whatever, we view these women as cautionary tales.
But …
My aunt trains dogs. Her schipperke is the national champion for his breed. She spent so much of her life as a librarian, nurturing the love of books in kids, myself among them. I ride horses because of her, and it’s one of the very few things I do that makes my soul feel at peace.
My mentor is one of the best criminal defense attorneys in her state. She has devoted her life to fighting to ensure that everyone gets a vigorous defense. Because of her countless people have had the opportunity to turn their lives around. Because of her, they’ve had a life to turn around. Because of her, the prosecution and the police in her jurisdiction are forced to behave ethically and adhere to the rule of law. She’s still, even now fighting to abolish the death penalty. It’s because of her that I am pursuing the life I am.
These women’s lives are not nothing. In fact they are a whole lot of something, and it makes my heart hurt that I ever, in my dark 3 am’s, thought of their lives as something to be avoided at all costs.
So love your family, your friends, your pets, your gardens. Love your job or your hobby or your raison d’ etre, whatever it is. Love sunsets and the smell of rain and yourself, and don’t love these as something to do as a placeholder until the buzzing, romantic love comes, but love these as things worth loving all in themselves.
It’s fucking hard some days. The dark 3 am’s still come sometimes. But most days, I am so much more at peace knowing that I am not incomplete or waiting, but that my life, if it ended today, is worth it because of the platonic, familial, friendship love I have shared. And if the other kind does come someday, that’ll be nice, but it won’t make any of the others less. It’ll just be caramel sauce on a sundae–tasty and wonderful, but the sundae was perfect without it too.
“At every turn, women are taught that how someone reacts to them does more to establish their goodness and worth than anything they themselves might feel.”
“But next time we’re inclined to wonder why a woman didn’t immediately register and fix her own discomfort, we might wonder why we spent the preceding decades instructing her to override the signals we now blame her for not recognizing.”
Queer Fiction Writer 